I think our hesitancy to pray aloud comes out of fear and trying to compare how we pray to others and how they prayer. I was guilty of this myself in the passed and now I don't concern myself with that, since its not about me its about Jesus. He cares that we are communicating with him and that it is honest and sincere. There are also some that don't pray aloud that are probably praying to quietly.

If we did pray more on our own it could give us more confidence in praying aloud when we get together. But do we actually know what prayer is and do we want to put the time and effort into praying all the time?

As I pondered the question, How can our group move onto maturity in the area of prayer?, I thought:, Is us praying together more, a sign of maturity when we get together? I would tend to say yes, since we would be putting God and others before ourselves. Thus becoming more like him.

Talked to a friend tonight, and their thought was, "I'm not sure what 'wide' could refer to unless it included others." To me it means our depth refers to our relationship with God and it speaks to the width of our relationship being inclusive of other people. A healthy "wide" person is inclusive of their depth with God. On an academic level, our knowledge of God and study is of many things, but we go beyond the textbook and have a deep relationship. It isn't just words any more.

We don't exclude people like the monks that become hermits to a fault. Our faith isn't hidden inside or exclusive to others, it isn't something we hold on as our own inside. The depth of our relationship speaks to how we love all people and have the depth to show that our love doesn't evaporate.

I too was apart of the group that posed that question. I think it was put out there to make us think.

Since God ordained for us to do this it is not possible to be selfish, since we are obeying what he is telling us to do. An athlete practices to make himself better while we as believers must practice self-denial and self control(dying to self). The prize for the athlete is, as NKJV puts it, a perishable crown and we an imperishable crown thus our focus is not of something that we won't be able to take when we go to heaven but on one that we can have forever.

Without prayer, Bible study and worship, which are essential, we won't grow spiritual that much. When doing these things we are running with strength and stamina.

I think I see what you're saying.  That wasn't all that clear to me.

You describe the tree as so very kind and generous.  I like that.

I also enjoyed your point about the Desert Fathers, although their breadth of influence upon Church history is quite extensive.  

 What might it look like to be deep AND wide?

I was part of the group that made that comment. I think it was more of a statement about the analogy of the runner in the race compared to that of the tree. The runner trains and runs to win a prize. He doesn't do it to help anybody necessarily. The tree, on the other hand, is almost solely there to help others. From the air we breath to the fruit that grows on its branches it utilizies the nutrients and sunlight to create things for others.

It wasn't really meant to be saying that the Christian 'race' is a selfish one. Not to say it can be. Think of those who spent their lives in solitude, far away from the "world". There you have the opposite of the North American christian: an inch wide and a mile deep.

That's all I have for now 'cause I'm supposed to be working.

Dave,

I guess I was a little surprised at how new a concept 'solidarity' seemed to our group. And maybe we were all a little out of it on Monday...I sure felt like I was.

Speaking with Dave McKay afterwards, he threw out the possibility that I was walking in solidarity with the YA leaders. Many of our leaders are stressed, sick, grieving, fatigued, and dealing with other challenges. Not that my own life isn't feeling full of its own stressors (ie. moving!!), but that I am connected and vulnerable to others in our community.

Do you think it's possible that we are more connected to each other than we think? What if it's true that when one part of the body suffers, all parts suffer (cf. 1 Cor 12:26)?